Hi all

[KingJohn]

Ive been teying to buy a 3d printer for a few years now, but not been well enough to spend the time learning all about them.

Im an engineer (retired) both electrical and mechanical (was) but these days im lucky if i can fit a plug on a power lead.

In the past, ive tried to buy high quality things, if i cant afford it, ill wait until i can.

My thought were i must be able to do everything, meaning printing in metals, plastics, and filements ive not heard of

Few years ago i seen they were selling chips to fit on the filiment, so that it works with the printer you got, not just the manufacturer filements.

Do they still do that.

I spend a lot on Amazon, always had a good service if something when wrong with the item i bought, even when it was out of the yesrs warantee.

I read i should buy one thats enclosed, self leveling, heated bed, not made a list yet, but added a few to the list in Amazon.

Nice looking
WEEFUN Newest TINA2 S 3D Printer
£169.99 sping deal

Found some good reviews
Flashforge Adventurer 5M 3D Printer
PLA/TPU/PETG
£296

Anyway, i dont even know if i need metal, pla probable be all ill need

Just a hobby, making figurines perhaps, few resin moulds, project boxes.

So point me in the right direction, who makes a good quality priinter thats going to last.

I dont want to buy a cheap one, only to find 6 months later, it be scrap and im buying another.

Thanks, any help appreciated

John

[CrazyIvan]

I'm going to address your points out of order, and bear in mind these are my OPINIONS which other people might not share.

My thought were i must be able to do everything, meaning printing in metals, plastics, and filements ive not heard of...

I read i should buy one thats enclosed, self leveling, heated bed

You need to prioritise. Being able to do literally everything also means very expensive.

For starters, you are presumably talking about FDM. You can't print in metals with FDM, that requires a laser sintering process more akin to SLA resin printing than FDM. I guess you mean metallic loaded plastic filament rather than actual metal, and there are various other types of loaded filament (wood, glass fibre...). These are abrasive to the nozzle, so you need a hardened steel nozzle instead of the hobbyist brass nozzle (or be prepared to keep replacing the nozzle...).

An enclosed printer means you can heat the printing volume and enclose smelly fumes. Adding an extractor allows for noxious/toxic fumes to be exhausted to outside. These extend the range of filament types you can handle. A big disadvantage is inaccessibility to intervene when a print goes wrong.

Self-levelling means not having to manually align the print bed to be exactly orthogonal to the X and Y motions. After a calibration cycle, small adjustments are made in Z automatically so that the nozzle maintains the same gap from the print bed as it shifts in X and Y, which is vital for the first layer of print. I think this is a pretty standard feature in modern printers.

A heated bed helps with one of the trickiest aspects: adhesion of the first layer... but it is not a universal panacea. Again, as with a heated build volume, it extends the range of filament types that can be printed with any level of success.

Few years ago i seen they were selling chips to fit on the filiment, so that it works with the printer you got, not just the manufacturer filements.

Do they still do that.

I was scratching my head what you meant by this. I assume you mean filaments which auto-identify themselves to the printer. Yes, they exist, but I regard them as a gimmick for marketing to the "maker community" – the sort of people who are more interested in pressing a button and popping out whatever their maker buddies are doing on social media than understanding the actual process. You see this kind of thing in the likes of the Cricut cutter ecosystem – "smart" materials automatically set the cutting pressure etc so the poor little dears don't have to configure the settings themselves.

Don't bother with it. Not having a chipped filament won't hurt anything, and if a specific printer won't work without their own-brand chipped filament, don't buy it. I'm pretty sure its optional anyway.

Filament characteristics are preferably set up during slicing. Telling the printer the filament characteristics is too late in the cycle, although I guess having smart filament could prevent you loading the wrong one by mistake.

The other thing is might be useful for is multi-filament printing, having the printer automatically detect which filament is in which feed. But again, is that worth the extra cost?

Anyway, i dont even know if i need metal, pla probable be all ill need

Just a hobby, making figurines perhaps, few resin moulds, project boxes.

And that's the point. If you stick to the basic hobbyist filaments, you won't need the expense of a fully-enclosed build volume, and they won't be too smelly in a domestic environment. Another factor: take a look at the cost of specialist filaments! You can always paint a 3D print so it looks how you want, which is a lot cheaper than buying a huge stock of different filaments.

Your biggest decision should be how big. Tina2S has a heated bed, but it only prints 100mm each way. On the other hand, it doesn't take up much room (and you need space around a printer, it's not just the printer itself).

Bigger build volumes seem attractive, but they come at a cost and also the bigger a print is the more filament it takes and the longer it takes. You could be talking days.

In the past, ive tried to buy high quality things, if i cant afford it, ill wait until i can.

That's not a bad policy, but you are also delaying the learning process. Successful, reliable, FDM printing requires experience – I say it is at least as much an art as a science. You would not hold off buying a car to learn in until you can afford a Ferrari, and the same should apply to a 3D printer.

How many people have forked out on, say, an Ender 3, only for it to become a white elephant stuck in the attic unused? I would say £200 is plenty enough to spend to find out whether it will become an enduring hobby, and for that money I don't think you could do much better than a Tina2 or Tina2S... perhaps a second hand one. (As a fellow engineer, I have found them quite easy to repair, but IMO you would need a bit of experience first so maybe don't buy a broken one!)

Avoid units which have their X motion only supported at one end (cantilever). The one basic requirement for an FDM printer is stability! Avoid flimsy.

Typically, budget-conscious printers move the nozzle in X and Z, and move the platform to get Y. The ideal (but expensive) is to avoid shaking the print at all, either by moving the nozzle in X Y and Z (platform stationary), or move the nozzle in X and Y and the platform in Z (Z motion is tiny, and only for auto-levelling, incrementing the layer, and retraction). Delta printers have stationary platforms, but they are a bit esoteric... and decisions such as this should be for your next printer, not your first printer.

Here's an idea: choose a model which is representative of the sort of thing you would like to be able to print in the immediate future. Either download it, or design it yourself (in FreeCAD or whatever). If you intend to design rather than copy, the design exercise will give you a very good impression of what's involved and whether that's something you're comfortable with. Having got your design, run a slicer (eg Cura) and try importing your .stl into different candidate printers. That way you'll find out which printers are at least capable of printing your typical model.

[CrazyIvan]

Flashforge Adventurer 5M 3D Printer
PLA/TPU/PETG
£296

I've had a quick look at the Flashforge, and it seems like a very capable printer although I am a little concerned about their complex and probably expensive "quick release" nozzle (why?), and their non-standard choice of 0.6mm bore. I know they say 0.6mm prints faster, but there must be a reason the community has settled on 0.4mm.

The bigger the bore, the faster filament can be deposited, but the bigger the bore, the less detail is possible. it's a compromise.

However, I can't find it for anywhere near the £300 price point you indicate.

Also, the construction is very proprietary, whereas the (say) Tina2 uses simple parts which are easily replaced with third-party parts. You will need to repair it, because unless the cabling to the hot end is extremely well engineered there is continual flex and eventual fracture.

A big plus is build volume, but that comes at a cost. "Flawless first layer"? I'll believe that when I see it. Maybe sometimes, but never always!

[KingJohn]

Whew, i need to print that out and read and understand more.

Money thesedays is not a restriction, but no point buying a 4 wheel drive if im never taking it off road

Btw, i have a Electric car, Hyundai Kona Ultimate, 109 MPH in a very short time. Almost got a ticket the other day, but the police motoway patrol, just waved his hand indicating to slow down.

Well i dont normally drive at that speed, 65 MPH is normal, but i wad showing off to a BMW driver, i do a lot of showing off

Hence having the best 3D printer might be a bit of showing what i can do, even if i don't do any prints of that type.

What i read is a few years old, for example the manufacturer filiment cost £35 but with a replacement chip from ebay,bi could then buy cheaper filament on ebay, not nessasary rubbish, but a lot cheaper.

Like i said my thoughts have changed a lot as i still dont have a 3D printer after thinking it be great to have one.

0.4mm if thats what everyones using, ill do the same.

The 2 printers i listed are saved in my Amazon list about 2 days before i came along here, getting feedback on those two would help me a lot.

Newest TINA2 S 3D Printer, Ultra Silent Mainboard with WiFi Cloud Printing, Mini Heatable PEI Platform, Auto Bed Leveling DIY 3D Printers with Resume Printing, Fully Open Source

I fould several places linking that printer, not nessasary a review, as mostly they get paid if you click and buy it.

So, im going to print your reply, and have a long read, anything im not sure about ill go looking for, finally coming back here .

TINA2 S £199 for a short time in the Amazon deals, it looks nice, the model that it shows printed is way bigger than anything ill be printing (i think)

I do but a Epon printer, than find a better model having found things it cant do, recently i bought a basic Epson 3850 just for letters, but found out later it dont have email printing.

So if i bought a cheap 3D printer, im worried i will find out quickly, it doesn't do something, because i didnt know about it, ir others can do it and thus one cant.

Sorry does that make any sence, its early morning, not woken up yet, illness takes be over an hour to wake up, probably with i didnt say something then

So im also going to read up more on the TINA2 S , see if i can spot things,bit cant do that i really want to do.

Are you saying if its enclosed, you cant slide the cover off to put something right ?

Cheers again, btw ive only ever used Autocad, for engineering, dont suppose it interfaces with these printets, heck ill mostly download the things ill be printing anyway, i wont be putting together anything myself anymore, cant spend longer that 15 minuits doing something before needing to lay down and recover, sorry just not well enough to spend a lot of time setting things up, those days have gone.

Sorry this is long, just wanted to write what im thinking at this time.

[CrazyIvan]

Money thesedays is not a restriction...

ill mostly download the things ill be printing anyway, i wont be putting together anything myself anymore, cant spend longer that 15 minuits doing something before needing to lay down and recover, sorry just not well enough to spend a lot of time setting things up, those days have gone.

Okay, so perhaps you would be best off with something as "fit and forget" as possible. That said, my (limited) experience says you'll need a lot more than a 15 minute attention span to achieve anything.

Have a good look around and see whether what you want to print is available to download at a price you're prepared to pay (a lot of free stuff isn't the best quality when it comes to actually trying to print it, while something you've had to pay for has an implied guarantee), and there might even be a community around any particular printer.

(My main use is to make the things I have designed for my own projects; I have little interest in making things other people have designed, except the occasional trinket.)

0.4mm if thats what everyones using, ill do the same.

That need not sway you away from the Flashforge, I'm just pointing it out as a difference. If the rest of the package gives you what you need, then...

What i read is a few years old, for example the manufacturer filiment cost £35 but with a replacement chip from ebay,bi could then buy cheaper filament on ebay, not nessasary rubbish, but a lot cheaper.

I've not come across any printer which won't work with unchipped filament (in my very limited experience), but even if it didn't you could always re-use the ID tag from a used-up reel! Nothing to get paranoid about.

The 2 printers i listed are saved in my Amazon list about 2 days before i came along here, getting feedback on those two would help me a lot.

Newest TINA2 S 3D Printer, Ultra Silent Mainboard with WiFi Cloud Printing, Mini Heatable PEI Platform, Auto Bed Leveling DIY 3D Printers with Resume Printing, Fully Open Source

The Tina2 is the only printer I have real experience with, the rest is observations based on that experience. Somebody else on here (with a Tina2) recently acquired a Tina2S, if you look in the right area you'll find the report. He says it's very quiet. FWIW the Tina2 works, and the Tina2S should work just a bit better.

I can't tell you anything about the Flashforge you can't read for yourself, but as you are willing to spend a bit more it seems like a good package. New printers are coming onto the market all the time, so it is difficult to get reviews based on a long history of use.

Are you saying if its enclosed, you cant slide the cover off to put something right ?

Not at all, but you might want to check those details before purchase. Any loss of accessibility makes intervention inconvenient, and interventions I commonly make are to abort a print because a fault has developed in the first few layers (that requires observation, not physical intervention), or to use a long bamboo skewer as a tool for removing surplus filament extrusion before it becomes a problem (without stopping the print).

If the Flashforge is as good as it claims re perfect first layers, perhaps you won't need to make any interventions (yeah, right).

What you don't need to be doing is having a 12-hour print fail within the first hour and not notice – all that will happen is a waste of time and filament. For that reason, if a printer comes with a built-in web cam as standard (or optional accessory) you might consider that worthwhile (enthusiasts can always retrofit). I believe there are even AI methods for monitoring a print and sounding an alarm if anything seems untoward. Take a look at Octoprint.

recently i bought a basic Epson 3850 just for letters, but found out later it dont have email printing.

Eh? I've never bought a (2D) printer that has a specific email print function. The operating system on your computer deals with that, and if you want to print from your phone/tablet what you need is WiFi printing (Airprint).

[Antipodean]

...
Newest TINA2 S 3D Printer, Ultra Silent Mainboard with WiFi Cloud Printing, Mini Heatable PEI Platform, Auto Bed Leveling DIY 3D Printers with Resume Printing, Fully Open Source

I fould several places linking that printer, not nessasary a review, as mostly they get paid if you click and buy it.
...

The Tina series printers are marketed under a number of manufacturer names (Crazy Ivan lists about three in the forum title). There are a couple of things to watch out for with them.

1. They are designed as an entry level machine. The build volume (as Crazy Ivan already pointed out) is about 100mm cube (i.e. around 4" cube) which is not very big in the 3D print world. If you go digging around the 3D files web sites you will very quickly find items you may want to print that will be bigger than this. There are ways around it, but if doing a lot of larger printing it may soon become a chore dealing with dimension limitations.

2. The Tina series has a single nozzle, so multi-colour printing is a bit awkward unless the colour change can be set up as a layer change, where the machine stops and the operator changes the filament to the new colour. I haven't tried this yet, but can see possible hassles. It may be worth investigating having a machine with more than one nozzle if your plans are likely to involve lots of multi-colour printing.

[CrazyIvan]

Fair points.

They are designed as an entry level machine.

I might even say "toy", but still capable. As said, the main limitation is build volume.

It may be worth investigating having a machine with more than one nozzle if your plans are likely to involve lots of multi-colour printing.

I see that as an expensive upgrade from first dip of the toe. I think were talking £800+.

There are two approaches to multi-filament printing (and it's not just colour: different materials make it possible to print support structures in a soluble or weak filament, so it's easy to remove after printing): multiple nozzles (expensive!) or multiple extruders into one nozzle (less expensive, especially for more than two). With multiple extruders, there has to be a short purge cycle between filaments to clear the melt chamber of the previous filament, which wastes some filament each time.

You can't get around needing a separate stepper motor for each different filament. The controller board has to be able to drive that many extruders (and nozzle heaters, if separate nozzles), so it's not a simple upgrade later.

For some restricted colour schemes, you can even splice lengths of different coloured filaments (the slicer will tell you the appropriate lengths) into one and feed that into a single nozzle.

[KenW]

The Tina2 is the only printer I have real experience with, the rest is observations based on that experience. Somebody else on here (with a Tina2) recently acquired a Tina2S, if you look in the right area you'll find the report.

Here: viewtopic.php?t=621

He says it's very quiet.

It is, very. I'm so used to being able to hear the Tina2, I thought the Tina2S had stopped printing for some reason (it hadn't)!

I haven't explored the WiFi capability yet, but is seems more advanced/integrated than the Tina2+WiFi. In any case, I wouldn't be willing to rely on potentially flaky network links to run an hours-long print, I would always advocate storing the print file locally on the printer (although that could mean dropping it onto the printer over the network).

I have a remaining problem on the Tina2S (I bought it requiring repair) in that the bed levelling isn't working properly and I don't know why at the moment. With built-in auto levelling of course, there is no fallback means of manual adjustment!

[KingJohn]

Ok, i missed that the offer is £169 for the TINA2 S 3D Printer. Ends soon...

So I'm buying one just as soon as i replied here, nobody said bad things, and those on Amazon although thought it a toy, its a good printer for me to ""learn" with.

Thanks, im sure ill be back again if i get stuck on something.

Thank you big time

Sir John tEng

[CrazyIvan]

Thread split and continues here: viewtopic.php?t=624